Wizard MTL vs MC shootout UPDATE WITH DOUBLE TRACK IN ORIGINAL POST

[braintheory]

I like the MC vastly better.

The MTL sounds good too but the low end is too bloated for my taste

Nice playing Bram

People who hate wizards just tend to hate everything people spend lots of money on lol

Agreed on all

 

[braintheory]

Definitely some of this going on. Except people who buy BMWs truly are assholes. lol

Even as a native New Yorker that barely drives I can 120% agree on this one LOL. I don’t understand how they seem to consistently act worse even than drivers I’ve seen with cars worth 2-3 times the price

 

[braintheory]

III is a metal machine. That is probably the disconnect. You have a bunch of rock guys trying to influence metal guys

I play mostly metal too and would take the iic+ over any iii I’ve tried 11/10 times and I still think the iii’s are great amps, just to me not needed at all with a iic+. For me it’s about the details in sound

 

[braintheory]

I wish you would play one. Then you could hate it but understand why it is popular. Wizards are pretty cool amps. But there are a lot of cool amps out there. I would like to try a few of your amps. Some of the clips are pretty nasty

Exactly, play one so you can hate on it more authoritatively like I do with amps I don’t like that I’ve tried lol

I respect any opinions, no matter how different from mine, if one actually tried the amp (better yet compared to other good benchmarks), but making such strong opinions from only clips is silly. If we used this same logic for judging how someone is in person based on dating app profiles we would be in for lots of rude awakenings lol. I think of all this stuff sort of like a trailer for a movie I may want to see. It’s still TBD

 

[Bram576]

Update with double track on a Google drive file here… hi pass on and that’s it. Double tracking ALWAYS makes a world of difference.

First is MC, second MTL.

If doesn’t play, click the arrow and it’ll open up the drive page.

 

[braintheory]

Well, right there that tells me something's up with clips that just doesn't seem to translate for you very well. Because, although the HR is a different Wiz model there aren't any HUGE differences between it and the other Wizards. They all have the same Marshall/HiWatt hybrid thing with different mids, or a hollow midrange like the MTL. Wizards all do the same type of thing with small differences...gain amount, midrange differences etc. But nothing truly 'like it's a totally different amp' thing at all.

My point is, when it comes to you evaluating an amplifier you always point out "Well show me a good clip of an SLO" for example. Like somehow that is the ONLY way to tell what an amp is all about. You own a C+; yet any clip I've ever heard of a C+ makes it sound just like a Mk III. But, in the room the C+ is FAR better sounding and feeling than any Mk III. So, by your logic since the C+ clips are no different than a Mk III they're the same amp.
SLOs are killer amps; yet you think they can't be because of crap or average clips. You base everything on how good of a 'clip' you can find of any amp. Yet a clip won't translate the 'in the room' tone, feel, thump ever. Clips are cool and I can appreciate all the hard work you and others put into clips, but to judge an amplifier on clips alone is silly at best. At worst, it keeps you from even trying other amps because the clips suck in your opinion. I've heard clips of amps that don't even remotely resemble the tone I get in the room. That's why I ask opinions of amps, as well as listen to clips.
If you want to hear a Wizard in action, listen to The Pretty Reckless Going to Hell...that's an MCII. Pretty killer tone IMO. There's a 'clip' that you should like.

I agree totally on the overall idea here, but would just add that the Hell Razor (to me at least) is very different from the MC and MTL I had, more so I feel than say a Rev C vs F, but still yes it has the overall Wizard flavor/profile with a lot more gain, attack, faster, tighter and maybe from the KT150 section more horsepower. I’d predict maybe in a clip context it could be very close as are a Rev F vs C, but we know how these things play out in person

 

[braintheory]

i have heard good clips, Redb4blacks rips, ultimatemetal, greatgreen have good ones, brams hellrazor.. they all have other amps i like more though, and besides them ive not heard anything that has me running for my debit card to be polite



its happened a few times lol, why my asshole opinion is so important to some i dont know but im flattered haha

I like all their clips too. I’ll admit this clip didn’t sound as good to me as his others either, but “terrible”? I don’t think so, just not as good as others I’ve heard

We’re all entitled to our opinions. I’d just recommend to try one yourself if you can to have a more informed opinion. At least be a proper hater like I am to Splawn’s, Uber Ultra’s and others stuff I tried and didn’t like

 

[braintheory]

So just explain to me how it works.. Myself and Bram have a couple of the same amps, the clips he has done of those amps are accurate to what i hear in my room, hence my trust in his clips, along with a few other guys... what changes when its a Wizard that what is accurate for every other amp all of a sudden isnt accurate and i shouldnt have any kind of opinion?? im not understanding. i like his hellrazor clips.

I like his Hell Razor clips too. Nothing changes, other than that it seems clips themselves can be variable even if it’s attempted to be as equal as we can, sorta like how for whatever reason you also like his Deliverance clip. I thought it was pretty good too, even though I never liked it all the times I tried it in person (too sterile and hollow mids for me). Really I just would love to see you play a Wizard yourself so that you can hate on them more thoroughly if you do or maybe like them. Either way is cool. As passionate gearheads I think we should try to play all the good stuff we can to learn even if we don’t like them

 

[Smash]

That is definitely a disconnect - there's also "modern" metal guys trying to influence "classic" metal guys, when all three are completely different tones with different tonal references and needs

Alot of the cranked plexi "brown" tones people jizz over sound like fucking sloppy dogshit to me, and the drop K polyphia tapping sounds like anodyne guitarpro4 MIDI files

I think there's just as theres a big gap musically between Dokken, EVH, Extreme vs Jag Panzer, Grave Digger, Iced Earth vs Polyphia, Gojira, Meshuggah

There's an even bigger gap TONALLY - even with the same amp sometimes

I think you play a different type of metal than i listen to. But the tone we search for is the same, and i think your clips sound awesome. Mine and your disconnect comes when vocals are added, mostly.

I dont listen to polyphia. What little I have heard has been boring as shit. But i appreciate meshuggah to lamb of god to pantera to black sabbath. I think i just like tight guitar tone. Rush, ac/dc, Alice in chains, creed and other rock bands had great tone also.

You are probably right though. Much of this forum is accidental misinformation based on the assumption that another person shares in the same tonal preference. You listen to one guy talk about how great an amp is, then hear him play five seconds of some lingering note followed by fast trills and other masturbatory barely musical soloing that you hear on every 80s rock album ad nausium.. I pretty much just keep moving.

You, bram, matt, raceu4her, etc all make clips so that one could see that you are playing the kind of music they like or hate. That is a lot more helpful than just words alone.

I make clips to try to illustrate the qualities of an amp. I hope people could get past the sloppy playing,.lol, but the important thing is the credibility that it gives you even if we arent all professionals. It isnt about you agreeing my tone is best. Plenty have talked shit about my tone, or playing, and i have grown from it and improved. Looking at you, @RaceU4her @dainbramage0

 

[Techdeth]

I'm the opposite. I did not care for Bram's Hell razor clips near as much as I do these. To my ears these are smooth and chunky with a glistening sheen to the top end whereas I found the hell razor to ba a little more brittle on top to my ears.

Where is @Techdeth ? THIS IS A WIZARD THREAD, GET YOUR ASS IN HERE CHIEF!!!!!

The only clip I have is with my Hermanson together

 

[Techdeth]

Btw I still have my MTL2 and it’s great . I like it and HellRazor

 

[braintheory]

I think you play a different type of metal than i listen to. But the tone we search for is the same, and i think your clips sound awesome. Mine and your disconnect comes when vocals are added, mostly.

I dont listen to polyphia. What little I have heard has been boring as shit. But i appreciate meshuggah to lamb of god to pantera to black sabbath. I think i just like tight guitar tone. Rush, ac/dc, Alice in chains, creed and other rock bands had great tone also.

You are probably right though. Much of this forum is accidental misinformation based on the assumption that another person shares in the same tonal preference. You listen to one guy talk about how great an amp is, then hear him play five seconds of some lingering note followed by fast trills and other masturbatory barely musical soloing that you hear on every 80s rock album ad nausium.. I pretty much just keep moving.

You, bram, matt, raceu4her, etc all make clips so that one could see that you are playing the kind of music they like or hate. That is a lot more helpful than just words alone.

I make clips to try to illustrate the qualities of an amp. I hope people could get past the sloppy playing,.lol, but the important thing is the credibility that it gives you even if we arent all professionals. It isnt about you agreeing my tone is best. Plenty have talked shit about my tone, or playing, and i have grown from it and improved. Looking at you, @RaceU4her @dainbramage0

I remember your clips showing the overall sound of the amps pretty well (to met at least). For me, I like all styles of tone (just what I feel is the best versions of them), so I try to play up to where I feel amps excel, so with Recto's for example (on the orange channel) I'll mostly play a lot of simple powerchords to accentuate the growl it does better than anything else and not play fast palm mutes where it's weaker, with Hermansson's I'll do the exact opposite, etc. I think it's about understanding the tools strengths and weakness, sorta like how we use forks, knives and spoons for their own purposes and won't rip on a spoon for being bad at cutting meat or a knife for being bad at scooping ice cream

 

[tjnx]

Good clips and playing. I think part of the reason people don't like it as much is because its not mic'd. The st. rock is very good but I can always tell when high end amps recorded are through a LB because of what it does to the low end. Would love to hear what they sound like in real life though, not any in my area

 

[Techdeth]

And remember this classic Hell Razor clip

 

[Smash]

I remember your clips showing the overall sound of the amps pretty will (to met at least). For me, I like all styles of tone (just what I feel is the best versions of them), so I try to play up to where I feel amps excel, so with Recto's for example (on the orange channel) I'll mostly play a lot of simple powerchords to accentuate the growl it does better than anything else and not play fast palm mutes where it's weaker, with Hermansson's I'll do the exact opposite, etc. I think it's about understanding the tools strengths and weakness, sorta like how we use forks, knives and spoons for their own purposes and won't rip on a spoon for being bad at cutting meat or a knife for being bad at scooping ice cream

You are very analytical, and i appreciate that. I very much agree about what an amp succeeds at being a good reference for its capabilities. You wouldnt compare a fender blackface with a hermansson with a straight face.

And something that me and you appreciate is the voicing of an amp. That is my number 1. I can tighten up any amp with a boost, but i cant make the voicing better, so that is number one. Number two is clarity. If an amp is slushy trash or so fucking noisy that i cant distinguish the notes of a chord, then fuck that piece of shit.

Me and you dont always agree on an amp,.and that is ok. But one day i am going to hang out with you and have you teach me what cardboard sounds like, lmao.

 

[Techdeth]

You are very analytical, and i appreciate that. I very much agree about what an amp succeeds at being a good reference for its capabilities. You wouldnt compare a fender blackface with a hermansson with a straight face.

And something that me and you appreciate is the voicing of an amp. That is my number 1. I can tighten up any amp with a boost, but i cant make the voicing better, so that is number one. Number two is clarity. If an amp is slushy trash or so fucking noisy that i cant distinguish the notes of a chord, then fuck that piece of shit.

Me and you dont always agree on an amp,.and that is ok. But one day i am going to hang out with you and have you teach me what cardboard sounds like, lmao.

You’re in love

 

[braintheory]

You are very analytical, and i appreciate that. I very much agree about what an amp succeeds at being a good reference for its capabilities. You wouldnt compare a fender blackface with a hermansson with a straight face.

And something that me and you appreciate is the voicing of an amp. That is my number 1. I can tighten up any amp with a boost, but i cant make the voicing better, so that is number one. Number two is clarity. If an amp is slushy trash or so fucking noisy that i cant distinguish the notes of a chord, then fuck that piece of shit.

Me and you dont always agree on an amp,.and that is ok. But one day i am going to hang out with you and have you teach me what cardboard sounds like, lmao.

Yeah I have to be pretty structured since I like everything basically. If I was more specific in taste I could be less analytical

For clarity Wizard's have to me been some of the best. Also IIC+'s

Haha done deal. Bring over some cardboard sounding amps like the KSR, Uber Ultra, or Omega and I'll see if we can compare to either a IIC+, Rev C or Uber Rev 1 for what I interpret as the opposite of that type of sound. Honestly that cardboard-y sound is right up Polyphia's alley imo

 

[RedB4Black]

You’re in love

He did take the midnight subway train!

 

[Smash]

You’re in love

You play your cards right, it could be a threesome

 

[Techdeth]

You play your cards right, it could be a threesome

Oh shit