Do you think that God actually exists?

[Telephant]

I dont believe Jesus ever existed. He's a fictional character in a pagan religion made popular by the Roman Empire to control the masses.

Yah, imagine how those guys even convinced the world to base its calender on such a myth! They even gave Josephus, the most famous of all Jewish historians, a bribe to write about him...LOL.

Josephus is cited by Christians all the time as their one source that Jesus possibly existed. And even that is disputed to this day.

 

[Gainfreak]

I dont believe Jesus ever existed. He's a fictional character in a pagan religion made popular by the Roman Empire to control the masses.

Yah, imagine how those guys even convinced the world to base its calender on such a myth! They even gave Josephus, the most famous of all Jewish historians, a bribe to write about him...LOL.

Josephus is cited by Christians all the time as their one source that Jesus possibly existed. And even that is disputed to this day.

The reason why this is always a heated debate is because no one can proove that God does exist and no One can proove that he/she doesn't.
In the end, people can debate about this all they want and it won't make a bit of differance because each side won't listen to the others views because there mind has already made up about what they believe.

 

[MOAAH]

Josephus is cited by Christians all the time as their one source that Jesus possibly existed. And even that is disputed to this day.

^that's funny, seeing how I just used two. The calender and Josephus. So much for the one and only source!
Even the Muslims believe that Jesus walked the earth. There is really no question whether he existed or not. The question maybe should be: Was he really the son of God?

And no, I ain't no Christian. Just a truth seeker

After all, "Know the Truth, and the Truth will set you Free"

 

[tweed]

I think I'll take a vicodin and reread this thread.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

And do we honestly think Earth has the only life in existence anywhere? .

"How can you correlate life on other planets, with the possible existence of a god?"

I asked this before but none of the non believes cared to answer, maybe you would.

Again, not that I believe N stuff. But, I do feel that some people have listened to their preacher a bit too much(blind faith) and seldom, if ever, check out what the good book actually says.

Because life on other planets goes against what we (or at least what I) have been taught on the subject of creation, paradise, heaven/hell, etc, etc, etc. And if that gets blown out of the water then what will we say, "OK, well maybe we got that part of it wrong, but we still know God exists"? I'm sure that's what the Church will say.

In our own history, religion can't explain the dinosaurs, evolution, etc.

Do I believe in Jesus? I can believe he existed because he was a man. But was he brain washed at such an early age that he was made to believe he was the son of God? If you were taught/told the same thing day after day from birth, wouldn't you believe it was so until something happened to prove you wrong? What if, and I'm stepping way out on a limb here, Jesus being the son of God was only a story created by a woman who had sex outside of marriage and needed to justify her pregnancy? Back then that could have been punishable in many severe ways, including death. What if religion came about because a bunch of "scholars" got together and decided to save the world from itself and write the Bible as a guide to human prosperity and well being?

Ask yourself this,... If you were never told by your parents and/or the Church that God and Jesus exists, would you be able to figure it out on your own? Would you see the signs to make you come to that conclusion?

Yeah, I know I went beyond your original question, but this is why I try to stay away from these types of threads.

 

[Gainfreak]

I think I'll take a vicodin and reread this thread.

make sure that you wash it down with some alcohol.

 

[MOAAH]

In the end, people can debate about this all they want and it won't make a bit of differance because each side won't listen to the others views because there mind has already made up about what they believe.

In general U R absolutely correct!

However, sometimes logic and historical fact over powers ignorance or hatred. It is the duty of every Truth seeker to search out all the facts, and once they have acquired an accurate knowledge, share it with anyone that will listen.

It is not always easy, but since when is everything that is worth anything really easy.

Besides, nothin' like a good debate

 

[ejecta]

Ask yourself this,... If you were never told by your parents and/or the Church that God and Jesus exists, would you be able to figure it out on your own? Would you see the signs to make you come to that conclusion?

Well either God made himself known from the begining or the first person that made the idea of God up did so without the inluence of church or parents. If that is true that person obviously saw some reason to do so outside your proposed influences. So obiously yes people do come to those conclusions outside influence of parents or church or at least one did if God doesnt exist.

 

[Gainfreak]

In the end, people can debate about this all they want and it won't make a bit of differance because each side won't listen to the others views because there mind has already made up about what they believe.

In general U R absolutely correct!

However, sometimes logic and historical fact over powers ignorance or hatred. It is the duty of every Truth seeker to search out all the facts, and once they have acquired an accurate knowledge, share it with anyone that will listen.

It is not always easy, but since when is everything that is worth anything really easy.

Besides, nothin' like a good debate

Yes but no one can say with 100% absolute certainty what happened hundreds/thousands of years ago Unless they had a time machine and went back to the time in question and experianced it for themselves. IMHO your TRUTH is nothing more then a theory and you cannot give me concrete proof of what you are saying to be true no matter how much research you have done.

 

[tweed]

I think I'll take a vicodin and reread this thread.

make sure that you wash it down with some alcohol.

Im at work bro. Coffee will have to do.

 

[Gainfreak]

I think I'll take a vicodin and reread this thread.

make sure that you wash it down with some alcohol.

Im at work bro. Coffee will have to do.

 

[hairychris444]

Josephus is cited by Christians all the time as their one source that Jesus possibly existed. And even that is disputed to this day.

^that's funny, seeing how I just used two. The calender and Josephus. So much for the one and only source!
Even the Muslims believe that Jesus walked the earth. There is really no question whether he existed or not. The question maybe should be: Was he really the son of God?

And no, I ain't no Christian. Just a truth seeker

After all, "Know the Truth, and the Truth will set you Free"

And, fwiw, the Josephus reference to Jesus did not appear in an early version of the text that spent it's life outside the control of the Vatican...

This is relevant for the same reason that the Catholic church fought the reformation so fiercely - control of information. It would not be outside the bounds of possibility that the church did a bit of sneaky editing to texts that were (almost) exclusively held in it's own libraries, and written in languages that only the educated, usually priestly, elite could understand! Once books make it into the outside world in the vernacular, surreptitious changes are harder to make!

As for the Muslim references... At the time that Mohammed was writing Christianity was the major religion to the north and west of his location. Borrowing a prophet from your neighbours, especially where the core of both religions plus Judaism were similar (Abrahamic) would have been a smart move.

I don't believe in Islam, and don't believe in any 'divine inspiration', you've got to give it to Mohammed. He was a warrior who tied his armies and conquests to him through a religion that he created! Smart bloke. I have a feeling that it was a deliebrate action... and centuries of Muslims just don't get it....

I give up on humanity sometimes.

 

[amiller]

'And yet, here we are, thousands of years after the birth of Christ, still talking about him...believers and non-believers alike...funny how his name manages to stay with us after all this time.

"Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

 

[MOAAH]

Yeah, I know I went beyond your original question, but this is why I try to stay away from these types of threads.

It's all good, please feel free to go beyond any question I pose

Exactly, we have been taught many things that the Church wanted us to believe. And it ain't just the Catholics that have twisted the truth to their own device. All the break away sects did so for their own selfish means. i.e., One reason the United church was created was so King Henry VIII could divorce all those wives without permission from the Pope. Many of the later versions of Christianity were created so the TAX was not sent to Rome...Note: "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth." This does not place limits on what the heavens actually entail, no it was man that added that ID!

I firmly believe that evolution was used by God to create. Even the order in which things came about are pretty much in agreement with the modern theory, i.e., At first the earth was a lifeless mass, then life started in the oceans, and later it moved up to the dry land...

There is no question Jesus existed as a man,I feel that anyone thinking this way has just not looked into it enough. Now whether he was the son of God, well that is where faith comes in; " For God so loved the world that he gave up his only begotten son, so that whoever believed in him, shall not perish, but have eternal life" But, you cannot just say, I believe. No, you have to follow his teachings and practice what you preach.

As for what me mom taught me, or some church I may have attended as a child: If it were not for tons of literature I have studied, including the Bible, I would still be lost, wandering blindly through the mess that is this system of things. I see fulfillment of Bible prophesy everyday, and in the past too. One good example would be how Daniel predicted that the Babylonian empire would be overthrown by a king from Persia, he even named him, long before it happened. Today we see tons of examples of prophesy coming true. Just check how the incidence of Earthquakes have gone up over the last 50 years or so, and then check the scripture: "And there will be earth quakes in one place after another." Many new religions have used the last days to scare folks into following their particular belief system. But then the Bible warns of such things: "Beware, there will come many false profits that will mislead many." and "there will be many coming in my name, but do not be deceived"

As for Mary, well we could make up a 1000 reasons why she could not have given a virgin birth. In the end thou, that is just placing limits on God's ability. Very easy to do if you don't have faith, which is OK too, we just have to live with ourselves no matter what we believe. Not that I believe N most stuff said in the churches, but I do have faith

Stay away from these types of threads? Well I am surprised that it has remained very civil. More so than say some of those other BBs may have been with the same subject! Me thinks it has somethin' to do with the forbidden fruit, it ain't as tasty once it becomes legal, LOL.

Peace be with you as it is with me,
Rob

 

[MOAAH]

"Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

^RFO! One of my Favs, as it shows clearly we don't need no Religion to be close to God!!!

 

[SteveP]

I'm am very much atheist after being raised Catholic all my life. Even when I was doing my Catechism things felt very wrong, to me. I searched for years and years and tried to find my faith. I really tried hard to bring myself to really understand the idea of faith.

My thing is that man originally created religion and gods to explain things that in nature that they didn't understand. Why does the sun set and rise? Why does it rain, why do you decompose when you die, etc. And as time goes on, we learn with science exactly why those things happen. When that happens, God suddenly becomes responsible for something else. "Oh, that's why there's plague." No, well, now we find out it's because of microscopic organisms, etc etc.

Every single time that has happened in history, God has never been the explanation. Every single time. When we find out the answer to something else, we automatically assume that God is responsible for something else, then. I don't understand why, though. When you have continually eliminated a solution, time after time after time, over thousands of years, there's literally no reason to revisit it, at that point. In time, Science will again discover things the answer to more things that we currently attribute to God. I take a naturalistic and realistic viewpoint to life, instead of holding on to the supernatural. We no longer have need of such fetters.

I feel that we really hold ourselves back as a species by hanging on to religion, in general.

There are enough beautiful, majestic and amazing things in The Universe and enough amazing things about the Human Race itself without the illogical need to dress it up with the supernatural. I believe it isn't giving us credit enough when we bring our ideas of God into it. The Human Race itself is worthy of our worship by sheer power of our ingenuity, if nothing else.


PS This does not mean that I hate Christians, Muslims, or the Hindi, or whatever the hell else you may or may not be. Most of my friends are people of faith, of course. It simply means that I feel they are misguided (as I'm sure they feel I am. The only difference is I can test my ideas of "faith," and none of the others are remotely testable).

Uh oh.. A little bit of logic. Religious folks don't like that! Gotta love that little thing called empirical evidence.

 

[MOAAH]

And, fwiw, the Josephus reference to Jesus

Haha! But Josephus was a Jew and they have their own text from him. How could the Catholics control what the Jews wrote about their own history? The Catholics tried to wipe out all other forms of worship, but the Jews have a staying power that goes beyond all the greatest earthy powers in history.

 

[Xabiche]

I don't see how anybody can argue for/against with any certainty what-so-ever. Anybody who says they "know" are, IMO, wrong. You can't know. Either way.

Besides, it isn't relevant to how we should behave while we're here.

 

[amiller]

I don't see how anybody can argue for/against with any certainty what-so-ever. Anybody who says they "know" are, IMO, wrong. You can't know. Either way.

Besides, it isn't relevant to how we should behave while we're here.

'Don't know about that, but I do know that I'm in TOTAL disbelief over you avatar...wow!!!

 

[ejecta]

Yes but no one can say with 100% absolute certainty what happened hundreds/thousands of years ago Unless they had a time machine and went back to the time in question and experianced it for themselves. IMHO your TRUTH is nothing more then a theory and you cannot give me concrete proof of what you are saying to be true no matter how much research you have done.

Are you saying truth is subjective?